We were married for 62 years - I so understand the quiet house. I am filled with "wish I would haves" and "if only If's." And with the gratefulness of which you speak for having had the opportunity of share those years with him. It's been four years since he died - life goes on - and I miss him as much - or more - than ever. Take care.
I put off reading this several times, as I thought it would be too painful.
It kinda is - truly heart-breaking - but also an important reminder for all of our relationships of any kind going forward. Thank you for your bravery and authenticity in writing this.
Jul 28·edited Jul 29Liked by DocTalk, Allan N Schwartz PhD
Thanks for this, Allan. In 19 years of marriage to wife #2, I don’t think we have had any serious quarrels though some may lie ahead. I believe there are two reasons for this. First, while we were dating, we read a book titled “Please Understand Me”. It is based on Jungian personality types. The book contained a simple personality classification test which we took. She was a classic NT. I don’t recall exactly what mine was. But understanding her personality type as well as mine enormously helped our relationship. I have been able to better understand my wife’s personality and why she acts as she does. And my personality and actions as well.
Second, 25 years ago my therapist gave me a metaphor that has successfully guided me. He said in times of disagreement, I could choose between being a litigator (which comes to me naturally) or a matador. A litigator will dig in his heels and litigate the disagreement. The matador will step aside as the charging bull passes him, and the crowd will go wild with applause. 19 years into this marriage, I still need to decide when to be a litigator and when to be a matador. Also, I have shared this metaphor with many friends who have said it has helped their marital relationships.
This is beautiful and so true. We are human and marriage is work every day. It is a beautiful tribe to your wife and life together. I have thing I want to change but I can only move forward it's all we can do. Thanks for reminding us of that
Allan, I offer my heartfelt condolences on your loss. I am sitting alongside you in empathy. There are no right or wrongs in grief. I collected many writer's thoughts on my grief resources page perhaps something in their words will resonate.
I used to say, "I'm so up the butt of my folk's relationship, who has time to have one of my own?" Now they are both gone, having both become utterly deadened by the weight of aging and trauma-drama during the last of their 62 years together. Who knew when they married in 1956 that the stress of life would accelerate as it did until he died first in 2018, and she just two years and two months later in 2020. The pressure on people to marry is unfair. It is difficult to have a totally loving relationship between two people even before you add in kids, mortgages, in-laws, and all the other career, family and self expectations that push in on the bliss that couples should be able to find and continue having together. I know shoulds are sh*t but finding your piece here today was a lovely surprise.
Please trust me when I say that it's not bliss. Yes there are moments of bliss and travels and adventures. But more often is the drudgery of ever day life. Arguments, taking the garbage out, dealing with the kids once they reach the nightmare of adolescence, etc. But is it worth it? Yes. Its just not Hollywood
Sorry for your loss Doc! Such lovely words,straight from the heart. Though Congratulations as well 50 years is a long time, I just showed my lovely ex this and her words were" Beautiful, you can feel the Love and the pain." I was with Mary as a Couple for over 25 years before we Split up, me being home full time after being in different places for months at a time, I believe it was too much for her. Just talking about this beautifully written heartfelt piece ,Mary said to me yet again " I still love you but I'm not ""In love with you"" we never really split did we Derek?" Hmm yes we did but we have been and always will be here for each other! You shouldn't regret things you can't change to be fair Doc, everybody using hindsight can say " I wish I hadn't done that or I wish I did this" ups and downs in a relationship shows that the love is real, having little arguments I think are part and parcel of a loving relationship as long as there's no threat of Physical or Mental abuse.
My Mother used to say "Love is Never HAVING to say Sorry "! Yet she would contradict herself by saying " Love is knowing when to say sorry"! It sounds like you and your Lady had a good fulfilling relationship! Something we all want in life is to Love and to be Loved.
I had many relationships before Mary yet none during or after . I am on great terms with all my exs when my Children were young two of my exs would even holiday with Mary and myself. I don't think I ever loved anyone as much as I still do Mary, we may not be living together ( we have Apartments opposite each other now) I still try and do what I can for her and Mary does the same for me. You have such a good Heart from what I have found, you write beautifully and always with meaning, You write from the Heart. Thank you so much for Sharing Allen
Derek you express things so well. First in my opinion as the years go by we are no longer “in love” with our partner. That's for movies. In stead we love our partner. Also Derek thank you for the compliment about my writing. My opinion is that you also write from the heart. Life is so strange sometimes. At another time when we were younger and I travelled we would have met and become friends. Whats the old saying, “in the next life.”
I think of you as a Friend Doc, I don't think you realise how much your words of Wisdom and advice has helped me regain a lot of my confidence in myself. If anyone had told me 9 months ago I would be conversing with others via a Writing platform I would not have believed them! I have had for a long time only had my Parrot companions and Mary to talk to, my Daughter Rachael has and I believe always will be there for me but it's only the last 18 months or so that she has made a point of visiting and staying for a few days, prior it used to be a year or more between visits now it's almost every month she will take a flight with B A ( I think she must have broken her Broomstick 🤭🤣🤣😇) and stay for a few days. I had genuinely become a bit of a Hermit. I find it difficult speaking with people nowadays even some I have known for decades. This is all changing for the better. You are the person I thank for that, and I would genuinely be Proud to call you my Friend.
Thank you Allan for such a beautiful and precious piece. I agree wholeheartedly with you that ...."I see that love is a continual practice of patience, forgiveness, and presence". I think a marriage without regrets is not possible, unless it is one that lasted a very very short time. It seems to me that our full involvement in love is bound to include many beautiful, and some not so beautiful parts of our humanness. So few people give us a view into the complexity and contradictions within. It is a precious honour I think when someone does. Marriage is one of those places where, if we commit fully, we run into the complexity and contradictions within each other. Thank you again Allan. Thank you.
"I see that love is a continual practice of patience, forgiveness, and presence."
Thank you Allan for these beautiful words. Such an important way to hold relationships with those we love.
Susan, I read one of the beautiful poems you posted and will return to red more. I am now a follower albeit non paying unfortunatley.
Thank you Doc. I just read and commented upon your beautiful and moving post today on grief and love.
Yes.
We were married for 62 years - I so understand the quiet house. I am filled with "wish I would haves" and "if only If's." And with the gratefulness of which you speak for having had the opportunity of share those years with him. It's been four years since he died - life goes on - and I miss him as much - or more - than ever. Take care.
My wife dies eight years ago and I am also grateful for those years. We were married 50 years. Life moves along so fast. Thank you for sharing.
I put off reading this several times, as I thought it would be too painful.
It kinda is - truly heart-breaking - but also an important reminder for all of our relationships of any kind going forward. Thank you for your bravery and authenticity in writing this.
And to remember that life moves quickly along. We must grasp the moment and live it to the fullest Now
Thanks for this, Allan. In 19 years of marriage to wife #2, I don’t think we have had any serious quarrels though some may lie ahead. I believe there are two reasons for this. First, while we were dating, we read a book titled “Please Understand Me”. It is based on Jungian personality types. The book contained a simple personality classification test which we took. She was a classic NT. I don’t recall exactly what mine was. But understanding her personality type as well as mine enormously helped our relationship. I have been able to better understand my wife’s personality and why she acts as she does. And my personality and actions as well.
Second, 25 years ago my therapist gave me a metaphor that has successfully guided me. He said in times of disagreement, I could choose between being a litigator (which comes to me naturally) or a matador. A litigator will dig in his heels and litigate the disagreement. The matador will step aside as the charging bull passes him, and the crowd will go wild with applause. 19 years into this marriage, I still need to decide when to be a litigator and when to be a matador. Also, I have shared this metaphor with many friends who have said it has helped their marital relationships.
That’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.
I love that. Yes, a matador. Marc why did fate have us not be friends. Well at least we are now
Maybe you weren’t ready for me :)
I may have sent you this before.
Only Love Prevails.
I can’t bring them back again
Those moments. I hold fast in memory
Dear ones dancing in my dreams
Still reaching out to me
When Spring has come and gone again
And brilliant Summer pales
And Fall sets sail in frosty winds
Only love prevails
No, I can’t. change the flow of time
Tho sometimes. I have wished that I could
My heart shall bind up all loose ends
And keep them mine for good
So let us recall some old songs
And sing them out around the fire
And hail once more our loved ones before
The hour that we retire
When Spring has come and gone again
And brilliant Summer pales
And Fall sets sail in frosty winds
Only love prevails
Malcolm McKinney 2016
Malcom that is beautiful.
Thank you.
I appreciate you sharing this. Wishing you peace and happiness 🙏
This is beautiful and so true. We are human and marriage is work every day. It is a beautiful tribe to your wife and life together. I have thing I want to change but I can only move forward it's all we can do. Thanks for reminding us of that
Yes we are only human each with our bumps and blemishes and imperfections. Frankly us humans are mostly terrific
What a beautiful writing. Thank you for your reflections and for sharing.
Audrey, thank you
Thank you for sharing. My heartfelt condolences.
Thank you
Allan, I offer my heartfelt condolences on your loss. I am sitting alongside you in empathy. There are no right or wrongs in grief. I collected many writer's thoughts on my grief resources page perhaps something in their words will resonate.
https://www.carermentor.com/p/articles-and-resources-on-grief?r=a9y7d&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Victoria, thank you and I will follow the link.
I used to say, "I'm so up the butt of my folk's relationship, who has time to have one of my own?" Now they are both gone, having both become utterly deadened by the weight of aging and trauma-drama during the last of their 62 years together. Who knew when they married in 1956 that the stress of life would accelerate as it did until he died first in 2018, and she just two years and two months later in 2020. The pressure on people to marry is unfair. It is difficult to have a totally loving relationship between two people even before you add in kids, mortgages, in-laws, and all the other career, family and self expectations that push in on the bliss that couples should be able to find and continue having together. I know shoulds are sh*t but finding your piece here today was a lovely surprise.
Please trust me when I say that it's not bliss. Yes there are moments of bliss and travels and adventures. But more often is the drudgery of ever day life. Arguments, taking the garbage out, dealing with the kids once they reach the nightmare of adolescence, etc. But is it worth it? Yes. Its just not Hollywood
I believe you. Ok, not bliss, but agreement to endure the drudgery together.
Yes all we can and must do is work at our relationships every day. Thank you for your message and for understanding.
Sorry for your loss Doc! Such lovely words,straight from the heart. Though Congratulations as well 50 years is a long time, I just showed my lovely ex this and her words were" Beautiful, you can feel the Love and the pain." I was with Mary as a Couple for over 25 years before we Split up, me being home full time after being in different places for months at a time, I believe it was too much for her. Just talking about this beautifully written heartfelt piece ,Mary said to me yet again " I still love you but I'm not ""In love with you"" we never really split did we Derek?" Hmm yes we did but we have been and always will be here for each other! You shouldn't regret things you can't change to be fair Doc, everybody using hindsight can say " I wish I hadn't done that or I wish I did this" ups and downs in a relationship shows that the love is real, having little arguments I think are part and parcel of a loving relationship as long as there's no threat of Physical or Mental abuse.
My Mother used to say "Love is Never HAVING to say Sorry "! Yet she would contradict herself by saying " Love is knowing when to say sorry"! It sounds like you and your Lady had a good fulfilling relationship! Something we all want in life is to Love and to be Loved.
I had many relationships before Mary yet none during or after . I am on great terms with all my exs when my Children were young two of my exs would even holiday with Mary and myself. I don't think I ever loved anyone as much as I still do Mary, we may not be living together ( we have Apartments opposite each other now) I still try and do what I can for her and Mary does the same for me. You have such a good Heart from what I have found, you write beautifully and always with meaning, You write from the Heart. Thank you so much for Sharing Allen
Derek you express things so well. First in my opinion as the years go by we are no longer “in love” with our partner. That's for movies. In stead we love our partner. Also Derek thank you for the compliment about my writing. My opinion is that you also write from the heart. Life is so strange sometimes. At another time when we were younger and I travelled we would have met and become friends. Whats the old saying, “in the next life.”
I think of you as a Friend Doc, I don't think you realise how much your words of Wisdom and advice has helped me regain a lot of my confidence in myself. If anyone had told me 9 months ago I would be conversing with others via a Writing platform I would not have believed them! I have had for a long time only had my Parrot companions and Mary to talk to, my Daughter Rachael has and I believe always will be there for me but it's only the last 18 months or so that she has made a point of visiting and staying for a few days, prior it used to be a year or more between visits now it's almost every month she will take a flight with B A ( I think she must have broken her Broomstick 🤭🤣🤣😇) and stay for a few days. I had genuinely become a bit of a Hermit. I find it difficult speaking with people nowadays even some I have known for decades. This is all changing for the better. You are the person I thank for that, and I would genuinely be Proud to call you my Friend.
😢
Debbie, I am pleased that you found this post and I was hoping you would.
It was especially poignant since I knew you both early on.❤️
Thank you Allan for such a beautiful and precious piece. I agree wholeheartedly with you that ...."I see that love is a continual practice of patience, forgiveness, and presence". I think a marriage without regrets is not possible, unless it is one that lasted a very very short time. It seems to me that our full involvement in love is bound to include many beautiful, and some not so beautiful parts of our humanness. So few people give us a view into the complexity and contradictions within. It is a precious honour I think when someone does. Marriage is one of those places where, if we commit fully, we run into the complexity and contradictions within each other. Thank you again Allan. Thank you.
Wow! That's very true Sir! A marriage or Relationship without a falling out once un a while, isn't a relationship it's a Fairytale! Nicely said. Ian.
i love hearing of your wonderful wifey. xx